Monday, May 23, 2016

2016 BIZ: Money on the HG, followup: Gloebits

Money on the HG, followup: Gloebits 
In a previous article, I discussed money issues that people accustomed to living in a monogrid could have in the multigrid world of the hypergrid. That elicited important comments about Gloebits in the Opensim Virtual community (G+), where I posted a link. Here I summarize the discussion in the comments and offer my own opinion.

What is Gloebits?

  • (More after the break)
  • Where is Arcadia?

Metaverse events, current and upcoming


Major obstacles to Gloebits or to any universal HG currence

Laws of a foreign state

  • Gloebits would be governed by the laws of the state of California. 
  • For some--perhaps many---grid operators these laws would be foreign.
  • A foreign and unfamiliar law system would be unattractive to some grid operators.
  • Some of the protections in European law would be unavailable under California law.
  • Individuals in Europe (and perhaps elsewhere) might find the laws unattractive.
  • Similar problems would apply to any grid-universal currency.

Giving your money credentials to a start-up

  • About 90% of start-ups fail--Quora 
  • If a start-up has permission to get money from your bank, PayPal, or credit card,
  • will a company in bankruptcy be able to protect you?

Buy and sell currencies have to prevent money laundering

  • If you can buy and sell the currency, you can use it for money laundering.  
  • Such a currency gets tight regulation.  
  • Operating under tight regulation may be beyond what a start-up can do.  
  • So I doubt that they can let people sell back (recover) their money.  

My opinion

The comment stream from Opensim Virtual

Since this stream may be hard to find in its original location, I have copied it here.
Carlos Loff
Yesterday 11:53 AM
Very important point of view for SLrs coming to Opensim, OS is more about self-exression and interactive support than hard core business - The last thing one wants to do on our worlds is subdividing lands for rentals

Cinder Roxley
Yesterday 12:33 PM
This is an issue Gloebits is trying to solve.

Yesterday 3:22 PM
+Cinder Roxley Yeah, they are trying to solve it, but the issue is clearly stated in their TOS, section Choice of Law with makes it completely useless outside the US if you don't want to be subject to US legislation and IRS tax reporting.

"This Agreement is governed by and interpreted under the laws of the state of California, USA as such laws are applied to agreements entered into and to be performed entirely within California by California residents."

In addition you would not be able to get any backing from the supplier of Gloebits for EU privacy and consumer legislation, so you would be completely on your own in that respect too.
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Carlos Loff
Yesterday 3:37 PM
Gloebits will surely be a good thing but the issue is a bit permanent, land is so cheap that creators do not need to rush and make stores and parcels for rental so people come more for creative and other purposes than making money, unless they sell clothes and scripted products, there is a lack of scripted contents, something like a free roaming dolphin is a plague on SL but there is still none on OS
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Aj Fackler
Yesterday 4:27 PM
I would not get involved in "Gloebits". Not because of their EULA or TOS but. because there is no value in what they are marketing. Digital money in coin is the same as the digital money already available on some grids.
The 'World Bank' aspect they seem to be trying to achieve I see as letting go of what little control we have over market and digital money value per grid. Where 1 OSG$ is 20 OSG$ on GCG, etc.. The largest grids then control the value of your products and services from your grid. It's a backwards step in the free OS.
Besides, a new system is not required. Applications are already easily created for the transfer of products for cash using PayPal.
Anyways, that my 20 FL$ which is worth .001 OSG$. LOL
AJ Fackler (
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Drang Po
6:14 AM
now I understand your anti 'Gloebits' +Aj Fackler .  What I liked about it was one currency that works across grids.  I'm not sure how this is a step backward.  Right now if I want to buy something it's a big pain, having to figure out what grid I'm on what system they use do I have to create a char on their system to buy, is the item exportable so I can trade it to my main, etc, etc...  Or if I did want to sell something is it possible to trade what ever grid play money for rl currency?  Yes some of them are connected to paypal yet paypal takes a 'cut' as well.    On our grid, we have no desire to be come a bank, it's enough that we maintain servers, and build, etc.  Having to look after a Bank as well, and being responsible for someone’s money on our grid when it's someone else's code... seems crazy somehow.  At least with OpenSim we can back up oar's and iar's.. so there is some protection.

I do understand the argument that having a company look after the money transactions seems like a loss of power.  Yet our servers are in a server farm, controlled by a different company.  Our Internet is controlled by a different company.  Even the OpenSim code we have no control over as has been pointed out a few times to me in other conversations.

Yes We could each learn to program and get involved in OpenSim and even the money module you like so much.  And get more control... I don't have the time for that my self... So I have to have a little trust that those that do will do their job... that my internet will continue to be on.  That the server farm will continue, that paypal and bit coin sellers will continue.

So I guess this is just a long winded way of saying I don’t' see being able to buy stuff on a different grid by clicking buy and then continue my adventures as a bad thing, all things considered.  In fact it seems to me to be a step forward.  If you want to buy and sell stuff...   If you want to be a bank then ya I can see why someone would not want it.

And no I have nothing to do with them.   other then testing their system as well as the others..  But having tried to buy something on the spot before and failed... then walked away cause I did not have the time to figure out just how I was going to buy it.    Each of those sellers lost a sale that day...

Any ways.  Have fun all..  Peace.
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Carlos Loff
6:21 AM

Paypal can be a swift solution - I have no money systems on Virtual Lisbon yet I can receive Money thorough a Paypal donation box that just needs an email address inserted on the notecard, I can even bring an artist and rezz my donation box and just change the email so the artist gets the tips - So it is just a matter of simple scripting twists to turn that box into a vendor or a rental box - I use Paypal in hundred ways for long years and never had one single problem


The Hypergrid WIP Show

The Hypergrid WIP is a one hour "show & tell" of works in progress or recently completed. All builders from beginner to pro are invited.  Presentations are in voice and text.  For text presentations, best bring the text in a notecard and paste it into chat.  Voice presentations may be captured in video.  Stills and videos from the show may appear in this blog and elsewhere.

Next WIP show 

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  • At Narasnook, use World Map to search for Pandora
  • Narasnook  location (second Sunday of the month)
  • Pandora allows presenters to run high threat OSSL functions.
  • Put the line above in your World Map next to Find.  Click FindTP
  • At Narasnook, use World Map to search for Pandora
  • Cookie II location (fourth Sunday of the month)
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